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Title : An Of Import Interview Amongst Bettina Bien Greaves
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An Of Import Interview Amongst Bettina Bien Greaves

Ludwig von Mises together with Bettina Bien Greaves

The below 1998 interview was republished yesterday at Mises.org.

Today is Bettina Bien Greaves 100th birthday. Mrs. Greaves is a really special person, together with without her the Mises Institute would non live what it is today.

Along amongst her hubby Percy, she attended Ludwig von Mises's seminars at New York University, where she earned the abide by together with trust of Mises. She went on to live a vital assistant to Mises for the residue of his life, as good as becoming an accomplished scholar inwards her ain right. Ever since the Mises Institute's founding, Mrs. Greaves has been a remarkable supporter, contributor, together with friend.

Anyone who cares almost the ideas of Austrian economics, freedom, together with peace, owe her their sincerest gratitude.

Below is an interview amongst Mrs. Greaves from 1998, discussing her fourth dimension amongst Ludwig von Mises together with the ideas the Mises Institute stands for. 

AEN: How did the most recent Mises book, Interventionism: An Economic Analysis, come upward to live written together with published?

GREAVES: This is a fascinating case. Mises came to the U.S.A. inwards 1940, together with this must withdraw hold been written before long after, but cypher ever came of it. This was a real lamentable together with hard catamenia inwards his life. He had no coin together with no job. His books together with papers, except for those he had taken to Switzerland, had been confiscated past times the Nazis. He had few contacts inwards America. I marvel that he was able to live thence productive.

I'm real pleased this majority is out at last. It is a valuable contribution, together with stands with Socialism (1922) and Liberalism (1927) as an of import part of the comparative-systems literature.

In those start few months after arriving inwards the United States, Mises also wrote Notes together with Recollections, a real moving book. I withdraw hold to give Mrs. Mises the credit for Mises's productivity during this period. She shielded him from the basis thence he could acquire his writing done.

AEN: Your bibliography is also an invaluable contribution to Misesian scholarship.

GREAVES: It certainly was many years inwards the making. It began inwards the belatedly 1950s, when I began attention Mises's New York University seminar. Then, i summertime when the Miseses were going to Europe, his married adult woman Margit gave me a key to their storey thence that I could catalog his books. I did that over the summer. Among the books together with pamphlets were Mises's ain writings. Also over the years when I was inwards Mises's seminar, he would manus me a re-create of anything he wrote. I began accumulating things over time.

That eventually became the bibliography I presented to him on his eightieth birthday (1961). But as before long as it went to print, I was dissatisfied amongst it because I had establish some omissions. I kept thinking I would acquire dorsum to it, but it took the constant urging of my friend Robert McGee to forcefulness me to pick the projection upward again. He came over every calendar week to help, together with nosotros worked faithfully for months. We both thought that a listing of books would live rather dull. So nosotros decided to annotate it. Well, this vastly expanded the project.

McGee became thence busy inwards his operate that he had to line out, together with I finished it upward over the next year. It includes non only Mises's published plant inwards all languages, but crucial passages from contemporary reviews of Mises's works, including reviews inwards German, French, together with Spanish. I had aid amongst the Italian, together with the Czech I left only inwards titles, but the residue I did myself.

AEN: And y'all did the translations yourself?

GREAVES: I'll never forget Mises proverb inwards his seminar, i time again together with again,

that languages are important. I took that to heart. It was all the same hard for me together with I did it real slowly. I had some French together with German linguistic communication inwards school, together with I studied Castilian after I got out of schoolhouse inwards 1938, inwards anticipation of spending some fourth dimension inwards Latin America. By the fourth dimension the state of war came, I was working 3 jobs inwards Washington, D.C., ii of which were secretarial. I wanted to do something to a greater extent than exciting together with to a greater extent than lucrative. I went to the U.S. job part to take in what they had.

They asked me: would y'all similar to operate for the government? I said no. Then facetiously I said, "For i thing I don't similar long corridors." They assured me at that spot would live no long corridors inwards South America. Thirty days afterwards I was inwards South America, working amongst a special commission investigating labor problem at a Bolivian mine. For propaganda purposes, the commission included a fellow member representing organized labor. Every morning, he would locomote roughly pulling build clean towels downward from racks to insure that the maids at the hotel would withdraw hold operate to do. The New Deal ethic of "make work" trickled all the agency downward to that level.

After completing its report, the special commission left Republic of Bolivia together with I was transferred to the Board of Economic Warfare. For the state of war effort, the Board of Economic Warfare was buying tin, tungsten, together with cinchona, for the handling of malaria. I learned some Castilian inwards my ii years inwards Bolivia, together with thence returned to Washington. There I was assigned temporarily to the Board of Economic Warfare's Mexican Division, whose task was to approve licenses for trading amongst Mexico. There were iv men together with 3 girls inwards the part together with practically no work. I spent my fourth dimension doing my fingernails, cutting newspaper dolls, together with making clothing for my immature niece. But I did type upward the office's asking to Congress for the adjacent year's funding to include 6 men together with 6 girls. That taught me something almost bureaucracy. Later I was transferred to Europe.

AEN: Did y'all brand it to Austria?

GREAVES: Yes. After V-E Day, I was i of 8 girls flown over the Alps to Austria. Working inwards Vienna gave me a adventure to relearn German. But I had never heard of Austrian economics. I had i economic science class at Wheaton College (Norton, Mass.), from which I concluded that the best form of authorities would live an enlightened dictatorship. The only job was that nosotros could non live sure that afterwards dictators would live every bit enlightened. When the Board of Economic Warfare was disbanded, I switched to the War Department for a few months earlier returning home. When I left the War Department, I swore I would never operate for the authorities again. And I did not.

I worked inwards bookkeeping after the war, together with i twenty-four hours I applied for a seat as an editorial assistant. I wrote that I was fed upward amongst authorities ruby-red tape. Well, at the other destination of that alphabetic quality was Percy Greaves, who would afterwards locomote my husband. He ran the Foundation for Freedom inwards Washington, D.C., but that organisation did non do well. In 1951, I came to the Foundation for Economic Education (FEE), where I met Ludwig von Mises, who was a part-time fellow member of the staff.

A journal called The Freeman, earlier FEE took it over, sponsored a Mises seminar. I attended that summertime together with took verbatim notes. Then that autumn I started attention Mises's New York University seminar, where I also took notes. I didn't halt taking notes on his seminar until it finally unopen inwards 1969. I also took some private German linguistic communication lessons, conducted exclusively inwards German.

AEN: And y'all pose your knowledge of German linguistic communication to operate for Mises?

GREAVES: He was to a greater extent than oftentimes than non suspicious of translations. He doubted whether many translators could live familiar plenty amongst the ii languages on which they worked to hit something really faithful to the original. Also, he oftentimes pointed out that customs, practices, together with concepts associated amongst i linguistic communication may withdraw hold no counterpart inwards another. Even so, he sanctioned some translations. I was especially careful amongst the translation of 3 monetary essays published as On the Manipulation of Money together with Credit, edited past times Percy. The ii of us oftentimes spent hours, amongst dictionaries together with thesaurus at hand, discussing the most suitable words to use. It took a lot of time, but I hope the final result would withdraw hold pleased Mises.

AEN: Was Human Action out past times the fourth dimension y'all met Mises?

GREAVES: Yes, together with I read it inwards 1951. I think standing on a street corner reading it, waiting to live picked upward for Mises's seminar. I was captivated past times it. Of class I didn't withdraw hold an economic science background, but inwards some ways that worked to my advantage. Mises's majority went against the grain of what was beingness taught inwards economic science classes together with line of piece of work organisation schools. To empathise his approach required start unlearning what was beingness taught elsewhere at the time. I didn't withdraw hold much to unlearn, so, inwards some ways, picking upward Austrian economic science was easier for me than fifty-fifty for Percy, who had been inwards line of piece of work organisation school.

The laissez-faire politics of the majority was no job for me. I was raised past times a manlike mortal parent who was a strict constitutionalist. He believed inwards complimentary merchandise together with wasnt fond of government. He was opposed to the New Deal, though my grandmother was a New Dealer. He simply agreed non to verbalise amongst her almost it. My impression is that the Austrian explanation for the depression is to a greater extent than widely accepted today than inwards the past. Frederick Lewis Allens book Since Yesterday accepts that the assemble with the job of the depression rested amongst the credit system. And Paul Johnsons History of the American People adopts the Austrian explanation too.

AEN: In the early on 1950s, did y'all imagine that Mises would live your lifetime project?

GREAVES: Oh, heavens no. I sort of got stuck amongst it. Percy was the existent Misesian, together with he kept pushing me to read together with study together with operate amongst this project. You know, I 've heard it said that Percy worshiped Mises blindly, but that was non true. He was drawn to Mises because he realized that Mises had the answers together with that others did not. I came to empathise that too.

Not that Mises was surrounded past times acolytes. There were 3 types of people who came to his New York University seminar. First, students who wanted an like shooting fish in a barrel credit. Second, to a greater extent than serious people similar Murray Rothbard, State of Israel Kirzner, together with Hans Sennholz, who were economists of the Austrian tradition. Then at that spot were people similar me, George Koether, Mary Sennholz, together with many others. We came together with simply got hooked. Frequently, a mortal would hear i lecture together with acquire hooked. I dont pose myself inwards that category at all. I supported the complimentary market, but it took me a patch to fully appreciate Mises.

AEN: Mises's appeal, then, is both scholarly together with popular.

GREAVES: Certainly, together with I think this is i argue he has had such an impact. Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 proficient illustration of his pop trend tin give notice live seen in Economic Policy: Thoughts for Today together with Tomorrow. In 1959, he was to deliver some lectures inwards Argentina. He came amongst a clear message. Government should protect together with defend the lives together with holding of the persons nether its jurisdiction, settle disputes that arise, together with otherwise locomote out people complimentary to pursue their diverse goals together with ends inwards life.

This thought was radical together with thence together with it all the same is today. Governments all the same presume to regulate together with command economical life. They manipulate prices, ready wages, subsidize business, hamper imports or exports, grapple the coin supply, aid for the sick together with elderly, bail out the profligate, together with on together with on. But these efforts are reverse to liberty together with reverse to capitalism, together with they hit undesirable consequences for gild inwards the long run. They impede the powerfulness of people to cooperate inwards their ain fabric betterment.

In these lectures, he expressed this thought amongst slap-up clarity together with force. He ever said it was as of import to convince businessmen together with average people of the instance for the marketplace economic scheme as it was to convince scholars together with intellectuals. What determines whether or non nosotros withdraw hold a complimentary economic scheme is the ideas people handle almost economics. Mises did everything he could to popularize the message.

AEN: Was at that spot a deviation betwixt the private Mises together with the populace Mises?

GREAVES: In populace together with private, he was ever a real placidity together with unassuming person, but also he was positive together with determined. As many people withdraw hold said, he wouldnt compromise. When he lectured, he did non withdraw hold the trend that is popularly associated amongst genius: wild eyed, arms waving, demagogic. That was non Mises at all. He was conventional together with traditional inwards his appearance. His manners were perfect. He didn't verbalise almost what he was doing or thinking. But inwards a seminar setting, he could live extremely quick witted. He was i time asked almost the proposal for making "paper gold," i.e., Special Drawing Rights, the international currency. He responded that the proponents of "paper gold" should consult the alchemists.

AEN: Many people withdraw hold said he was a human being of the Old World.

GREAVES: Remember that his total advert was "Ludwig Edler von Mises." "Edler von" indicates the particular rank of nobility he had nether the quondam Austro-Hungarian Empire. Before 1919, his books together with writings were signed "Ludwig von Mises." After World War I, all Austrian titles of nobility were abolished past times law. As a result, his writings inwards the interwar catamenia were signed "Ludwig Mises." After he left Vienna, he added the "von" dorsum in. In America, he dropped the "von" inwards his private life, but continued to utilisation it inwards his writings, thence that bibliographers would know he was the same man.

It was a smart choice, because he was thence prolific. In Vienna, when Mises had a full-time task amongst the Chamber of Commerce, writing reports together with articles on all sorts of economical topics, he was also instruction i eventide a calendar week together with holding his famous private seminar i eventide a week. Hayek says that inwards 1922, he was dumbfounded to take in this huge majority called Socialism come out. He didn't know Mises was fifty-fifty writing it together with didn't know when he would withdraw hold had time.

AEN: Fritz Machlup seems to withdraw hold worked hard to acquire Mises a seat inwards those early on years.

GREAVES: They were real proficient friends. Machlup was a businessman, he also came to Mises's private seminar inwards Vienna together with received his PhD at the University of Vienna. When Mises was thinking of migrating to the United States, he couldn't acquire permission without start having a task offer. It was Machlup, together with I think Gottfried Haberler, who made arrangements amongst the provost of a academy inwards California. Mises accepted. It was only after Mises arrived inwards New York that he was told that at that spot was no job; it was only a ruse to acquire him to the United States.

Henry Hazlitt, who was working for the New York Times, also tried to acquire Mises an academic position. He held a dinner political party amongst some people from the New School for Social Research. But they establish him far also extreme to hire. When he finally got an invitation to speak inwards Mexico, together with the visas were arranged, it was a tremendous boost to his morale. Later, he was able to acquire a visiting professor seat amongst New York University, together with a foundation called the Volcker Fund paid NYU for the costs of his seminar.

One dot on Machlup. He was taken in, at to the lowest degree to some extent, past times Keynesian economics. Many years later, Machlup made a spoken communication at a Mont Pelerin Society coming together on coin together with credit. Mises stood upward together with left the room. He told Margit, "Machlup knows improve than that." Later, Margit got Mises together with Machlup dorsum together again.

AEN: It's been said that relations betwixt Leonard Read together with Mises were sometimes tense.

GREAVES: FEE was Reads foundation, together with he wanted to live the big I Am. And he was. Mises had his bailiwick, inwards which he felt he deserved recognition as the authority. Read realized that together with respected it. Read invited Mises to lecture at FEE regularly, but they kept their jurisdictions separate, as they should have. Read didn't empathise Mises, but he knew he was an of import person.

Read was also jealous of Percy for the same reason. Percy sometimes went on the route for seminars amongst Read. After a talk, the audience was carve upward into 3 groups, together with each speaker would bring a 3rd of the audience together with plain questions. Read couldn't plain the questions sparked past times Percy's talks. He didn't desire to verbalise almost money. He would shift the word to whether or non the seminar should include a verbalise on money. I think the job was inwards the word grouping format.

AEN: What role did Hazlitt play as Mises's editor?

GREAVES: Mises got a grant to withdraw hold an part at the National Bureau for Economic Research, together with thats where he wrote both Bureaucracy and Omnipotent Government. Hazlitt helped considerably amongst them, editing together with getting them published past times Yale University Press. Then Hazlitt encouraged Yale to inquire Mises to redo inwards English linguistic communication his German-language Nationalekonomie. When Human Action was inwards manuscript shape he went over it together with marked it up, trying to shine out the English. Later when reading over the published edition, Hazlitt occasionally came across some awkwardly phrased passages. Whether Mises rejected Hazlitts suggestions, I simply dont know. In general, Mises's English linguistic communication was real good, but it was formal, non colloquial English.

Thirteen years later, Mises wanted to brand some changes inwards the sections on monopoly together with on government, partly inwards response to discussions he had amongst Murray Rothbard. Yale said they would do this past times pasting inwards the novel fabric amongst the quondam manuscript. Mises said he wanted to take in proofs earlier printing, but Yale said non to worry.

When the novel edition came out, Mises was sick almost it. His lifetime operate had been mangled. They omitted i page, printed i page twice, together with did the same thing amongst a duad of paragraphs. They had nighttime type together with lite type, brusk pages together with long pages. It was a lousy impress task that Yale should withdraw hold been ashamed of. Mises wanted to sue, but his lawyer said they had no adventure of winning a instance against Yale inwards Connecticut. At start Yale didn't desire to relinquish reprint permission, but finally inwards 1966, the entire manuscript was reset together with published past times Henry Regnery. That was the version that was sold for many years. Two years ago, FEE was pleased to number a newer edition amongst some corrected typos together with a novel together with expanded index.

AEN: Mises was oftentimes thought to live behind the times.

GREAVES: And straight off nosotros know that he was agency ahead of his times. He was celebrating the wonderful creativity together with productive powerfulness of markets patch everyone else was talking almost the wonders of key planning together with socialism. Today, markets are becoming the driving forcefulness of history together with governments are shrinking inwards their ambitions.

AEN: What do y'all think almost claims that the line of piece of work organisation wheel has been abolished?

GREAVES: I'veheard this many times inwards the past. And I oftentimes acquire asked almost parallels betwixt the 1920s together with today. Today, simply as inwards the 1920s, people think the prosperity volition in conclusion forever. Thats what they also thought inwards Thailand, Indonesia, together with Republic of Korea only ii years ago. Theres no query that todays soft credit expansion has distorted production patterns, but inwards what agency together with to what extent nosotros cannot know for sure.

Of class there's been continual credit expansion since the creation of the Fed, amongst only a few interludes. Every pace away from the aureate measure has freed upward the key banking concern to expand the coin render through the credit system, until nosotros locomote far at where nosotros are today: no limits on what the Fed tin give notice do. The effects of inflation withdraw hold been forestalled because the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, hoarded overseas together with held past times individuals together with every key bank. It's hard to state where the acquaint boom volition lead, but I noted something Mises said inwards i of his lectures that I was transcribing the other day. He said that the capitalist scheme is thence productive together with adaptive that it conceals the ill-effects of credit expansion for a real long time. But at that spot is a limit.

AEN: What do y'all suppose volition live the response past times the Fed inwards the adjacent recession?

GREAVES: It's hard to say, but the history of banking concern failure doesnt propose that banking authorities volition do the right thing. Every fourth dimension at that spot were banking concern failures inwards the nineteenth century, people would blame the lack of centralization. That's how nosotros eventually got a Federal Reserve. It was attempting to provide the banking manufacture amongst to a greater extent than liquidity thence that it could ride out banking concern crises.

Now, nosotros withdraw hold internationalized banking concern failures together with fifty-fifty whole governments that are propped upward past times the IMF, working amongst the Fed together with the Treasury. In each case, the dollar is serving as the foundation for these escalating bailouts of unusual governments together with banking systems. That would imply that the adjacent crises powerfulness atomic number 82 to a force for a basis key bank, which would only extend the acquaint problem.

Keynesians desire to confine the powerfulness of nations to exercise sovereignty over their ain key banking policies; they desire all countries to inflate at the same rate. That's hard to do when countries are trying to run their ain affairs, together with especially when every province seems to think that the agency to maintain prosperity going forever is to maintain expanding the coin supply.

In the in conclusion serial of Mises's lectures that I typed, he was speaking almost the continual easing of money. He pointed out that when the quantity of coin together with credit is beingness increased, monetary authorities must determine who volition acquire the novel coin first. Those who do are content; those who dont are resentful. In whatever event, every such instance of selective expansion must atomic number 82 to economical distortion. We withdraw hold seen the total collapse of some Asiatic economies when things got out of kilter. The monetary authorities dont seem to withdraw hold a clue as to how to grapple the situation.

AEN: Percy had a strong involvement inwards the query of Pearl Harbor, together with and thence y'all picked upward his project.

GREAVES: I'm working on finishing his manuscript. Percy served as principal of the minority staff on the Congressional commission that investigated Pearl Harbor. The majority is called The Seeds together with Fruits of Infamy, together with it volition in all probability live almost 1,000 pages. I think it volition live an of import contribution. We withdraw hold documentation that Roosevelt was non willing to facial expression for U.S.A. territory to live attacked. He intended on Dec 8 to withdraw hold the U.S.A. motion into the state of war to defend "our national interests" inwards Southeast Asia when British together with Thai territories were attacked inwards that part past times the Japanese. Thus the assault on Pearl Harbor became the excuse, but it was non the argue for our entering the war.

The start substantial postwar majority on Pearl Harbor appeared inwards 1947, past times George Morgenstern. There withdraw hold been many since. Most historians handle that Roosevelt wanted the U.S.A. to acquire into the war, but it is non well-known that he had that intention fifty-fifty earlier the Dec seven assault on Pearl Harbor. Our majority covers all the 8 or nine investigations that sought to determine why nosotros were surprised past times the Japanese assault together with who was responsible for the extent of the damage. My task is to update his work, considering all the modern scholarship on the subject, together with provide as many details almost the instance together with the investigations as possible, thence the reader tin give notice brand upward his ain mind.

The administration's investigations were rigged, together with ended upward holding the Hawaiian commanders, Admiral Husband Kimmel together with General Walter Short, responsible. The truth started to come upward out inwards 1944, when intelligence leaked that the U.S.A. had broken the Japanese diplomatic code long earlier the assault together with had been intercepting Japanese messages. But the revelations derived from the prewar intercepts were non delivered to the Hawaiian commanders. Roosevelt died inwards Apr 1945, earlier V-E Day. Only inwards August 1945, after V-J Day, were the reports from the Army together with Navy released--by the novel president, Harry Truman. These reports pretty much absolved Kimmel together with Short of blame together with placed the responsibleness on the administration. That's when Congress got involved. Our majority reviews all the investigations together with considers all the evidence almost the cover-ups. As y'all tin give notice see, authorities cover-ups together with plots against the truth are cypher new.

AEN: Will this majority deport on how nosotros think of Roosevelt?

GREAVES: I don't state this inwards the book, but I think it demonstrates that Roosevelt was cagey, sneaky, together with scheming. That comes through inwards how he was trying to maneuver us into war. Clare Booth Luce said it inwards the 1944 campaign: he lied us into the war. I withdraw hold a chapter inwards which I hash out what Roosevelt knew together with when he knew it. He is non on tape anywhere on the subject. There are many notes that state thence together with thence met inwards the White House together with discussed such together with such amongst Roosevelt. But he didn't pose things inwards writing. Incidentally, Admiral Kimmel's boy read the start majority of this book, earlier he died non long ago, together with said that was the best handling of prewar events inwards Washington that he had seen.

AEN: Do y'all think nosotros could withdraw hold avoided the war?

GREAVES: Charles Lindbergh thought so. He said it wasnt our state of war together with nosotros should remain out. I tend to agree. I dont know what would withdraw hold happened to England inwards the brusk run. And I dont know what would withdraw hold locomote of Russian Federation inwards the absence of our assistance.

But as Mises says in Interventionism, Hitler's programs would non withdraw hold worked over the long run. He was trying to run a planned economy, together with it would withdraw hold failed simply as sure as shooting as other socialist programs withdraw hold failed. But today, people think Roosevelt saved the world, non only militarily but also economically, through inflation.

Incidentally, I highly recommend R.J. Rummel's book Death past times Government. It is absolutely unbelievable what governments withdraw hold done to people, ofttimes their ain people. There are of import lessons hither to live learned!

It's truthful that the mental attitude of people toward authorities has shifted. Many uncovering authorities corrupt together with expensive together with dubiousness its effectiveness. At the same time, people all the same do non trust complimentary markets together with opened upward competition. The ideas of Marx together with Keynes linger on inwards the pop hear together with all the same haunt legislation.

AEN: And to explicate the workings of economical liberty is a driving forcefulness behind your work.

GREAVES: Yes it is. I loved working on Mises's bibliography. At times I establish it fascinating; at other times I wondered who would ever live interested inwards all the minutia I was earthworks up. I relish talking almost him together with discussing his career. But as interesting as the details of his life are, his ideas together with economical theories are to a greater extent than important. Promoting them volition live the most plumbing fixtures tribute possible to Mises.

Originally published inwards the Austrian Economics Newsletter (Volume 18, Number 4 | Winter 1998)

Bettina Bien Greaves attended Ludwig von Mises's New York University seminar, compiled Mises: An Annotated Bibliography, the major parts of which are straight off available on Mises.org here, together with also edited several collections of articles. She is a senior Mises Scholar of the Ludwig von Mises Institute together with was interviewed inwards her part at the Foundation for Economic Education

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